This might be the dumbest thing I have heard in a while. People who don't have money in the first place will not pay fines. What makes you think that a person begging for money on the street is going to come up with enough money to pay s $50 fine for trying to get money. Instead of wasting time, money and effort on a ridiculous plan that will not do anything, why doesnt the city work on helping the people who are less fortunate.

If people are panhandling to get by, how are they going to pay a $50 fine? The vast majority of panhandlers are homeless and only have the shirt on the back. Also, what and who defines what "aggresive" is? Other than that keeping doorways and ATMs clear makes sense.

So... The solution to people looking for money is... Making them pay money? Something definitely needs to be done, but I can't be the only one seeing holes in this "solution".

Oh, guess I'm not the only one! No comments were up yet when I posted that.

Walgreens on new derby st, by wendys in the point, and at the depot. A fine is one of the stupidest solutions I've ever heard for this. Seriously, this is the perfect example of idiot law inforcement in salem.

I usually toss the local homeless that I recognize a few dollars. For the most part, they're kind and gentle people. However, I do get annoyed when I hear the "I just need a dollar for the train" schtick over and over from the same few people.

It may be dumb (I think not), but it is at least an effort to address a "quality of life issue that been the subject of complaints by many citizens.

This city does more than most on the north shore to "help those that are less fortunate" Mr. Arrigo. The presence of Lifebridge and more than one food pantry attests to that. If someone is hungry, and has the presence of mind to be close to sober they can can always find clothing, food and shelter in this town.

I would also question gene's assertion that "the vast majority of the panhandlers are homeless". Being in the downtown most days and having worked closely with the YMCA and with Lifebridge I have found that most of the regular and "aggressive" panhandlers are not homeless at all. Some are Salem residents and more than a few catch the train or bus in from Lynn and other communities.

The proposed ordnance does it's best to define what aggressive is and I believe it does a fair job of that. My guess will be that most of those arrested will in fact be able to come up with the $50.

Also gene, the firefighters and school groups come to the city council for "tag day" permits. I believe on the firefighters are actually allowed in the intersections. So no, this will probably not stop those groups.

So we can do something, or we can do nothing. Either way there will be those unhappy with the course of action.

Enjoy your day gentleman.

Also, I agree with everyone above. A $50 fine is ridiculous.

If they are going to start fining people for aggressively asking for money, then they should also fine every politician that aggressively bombards you with calls asking for money to support them!

I've had great success in simply saying "no" to the rude and belligerent panhandlers.
I've also called the police on behalf of my fellow citizens when I see them being harassed. There is one man, in a motorized wheelchair, who targets young women as they park their cars - he blocks them in and won't let them out; forcing confrontation or a donation. To me, it's a sad act of desperation, but to others (who aren't totally darn fed up with this guys tactics) it can be downright scary.
As someone who works near Klop Alley and Walgreens I see this bad behavior almost daily - not only by homeless people, but by punks, scam-artists and drug addicts (oh, and one prostitute).
I suggest that SOMETHING is better than NOTHING. Even if they are unable to pay the fine, the proposed ordinance should act as a deterrent - and I'm pretty sure that is the objective. Don't want to pay the fine? Don't act aggressively. One could still panhandle, an activity protected by the First Amendment, but do so without intimidation or scare tactics.

I do not feel that the act of fining is going to solve the problem. In conjunction with other actions, this MIGHT. It would be helpful to know what other steps (if any) would be put in action along with this. If none, then this just feels silly.
What research has been done to propose this suggestion? Has it been successful elsewhere? What have other cities done to stop aggressive panhandling?
These meters have been brought up before, but I think they are a great idea and should be considered: http://www.atlantadowntown.com/initiatives/stop-panhandling/redirect-giving

The proposed ordnance is based on similar ones passed in Everett and Worcester. The reason it was sent to committee was to allow more time to research those, and other ordnances passed in other communities to include one soon to be enacted in Boston.

There is still ample time for feedback from the public. Except for the few who post here or in the SNEWS I will say that 90% of the feedback I have gotten from the public has been in favor of this. Since most council members don't usually follow this or other message boards I would suggest you contact them via telephone or email.

I will sign off now and let the flow goes where it goes.

It is no secret that Salem supports the shelter. How can we say yes to the shelter and no to panhandling? People have a right to try to survive by any reasonable means.Salem is spinnig out of control.Fines for this,fines for not shoveling. What right does a city have to create a law that violates my freedom? Why do I not have the right to politely ask a person for something,regardless of what it is? If I am not doing something that is already illegal then deal with the real issue and not something that is a result of the real issue.

From the Salem News: The following would be prohibited: Panhandling to people in a vehicle in traffic or stopped on a public street Panhandling to a person on public transportation Panhandling within 15 feet of an ATM Panhandling on private property, unless allowed by the property owner Coming within 3 feet of a person to panhandle, unless the person indicates that they want to make a donation Panhandling by intentionally "obstructing the path" of a person or vehicle Panhandling by intentionally blocking an entrance or exit to a building Panhandling to anyone under 16 Following a person that walks away from a panhandler, intending to intimidate them Using "profane or abusive language" during panhandling, or following a refusal."

I've always given money to panhandlers who are friendly and ask politely. I was on a first-name basis with several panhandlers when I worked in Boston. We used to have interesting conversations about life in general. That said, I'm not at all happy with someone approaching my car or trying to block my path. Maybe it's because I lived in two major US cities and those kinds of actions definitely meant trouble. In Salem I give aggressive folks a firm "no" because it feels invasive and sometimes a little threatening. Ditto on anyone approaching me to ask for money after seeing me leave an ATM.

You know what would be great - if they used actual pans, like in the old days - hence, panhandling. That would be a sight for sore eyes.

This sounds like one of Obama's big pronouncements - big talk, probably no action. It does seem silly to fine a bum $50.

One day I was going for some coffee and a muffin in Salem. I had five dollars to my name. A man in a wheelchair approached me and said "I'm hungry can you give me some money?" I replied i only have $5.00 ...I can buy you a muffin. He said " I need $5.00" I said I only have $5.00 but I can buy you a muffin. I went into the shop bought a small (instead of my intended medium) coffee and two muffins instead of one. The last of my money spent I came out and looked for the man begging for money for food. When I found him down the street I walked up and held out the muffin and said here you go sir...he said "I want a sub!" and refused the offering . I was shocked and appalled.
As someone who has been poor, homeless and hungry as a youth, I personally think that panhandlers should be restricted from harassing citizens for money and fines should be implemented. I've been where "they" are and know that there are resources available to lift them out of their present circumstances. Some don't want help and some truly don't need it. As a mom I get nervous when men come up to my car window (or worse my children's!) and try to get money from me. I'm grateful for the attempt by the council to rectify the situation. Being poor is not an excuse for bad manners.

If everyone stopped giving them money they would move along eventually. I like the idea of placing re-purposed parking meters in the areas where they are currently panhandling. (see link below)

Some of them are beginning to get very aggressive. Actually following you and cussing at you because you did not give them any money.

If you really want to make them angry buy them a sandwich and try to hand it to them. Most will flat out refuse it.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-05-29/features/os-parking-meters-donations-homeless-20110529_1_parking-meters-panhandlers-donation-stations

PS....Any attempt at enforcement by SPD of an ordinance enacted by the council will probably lead to a costly lawsuit brought on by the ACLU. The ACLU belives that panhandling is a form of free speech.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/04/1751426/aclu-panhandling-rules-risk-lawsuits.html

How do you differentiate between "aggressive" panhandling, or "passive" panhandling?,...tone of voice?, hand gestures?When should a fine be issued? ,...will the homeless ever pay the fines?
Stay tuned

This a complete waist of time. How could a judge possibly force a person without money to pay a fine?

make them pay taxes on what they take in every day.

They also need to focus on the Essex Street pedestrian mall. The little clowns down there at any given dinner rush on a pleasant weekend night think they're so slick claiming they forgot their train money and talking your ear off or whatever, and they're instead just so sad. They only come back because people actually give them money.

I really feel bad for homeless people But there was one homeless woman years back that still baffles me. She use to push a shopping cart with all her belongings all around Salem. She eventually passed away and when police searched her belongings to find out who she was or next of kin, they found thousands and thousands of dollars in her cart. "It boggles the mind."